The CFO Secret: Why Most Service Businesses Fail to Scale Past $5M

Jeffro (00:01.842)
Here’s a sobering fact. Most service businesses that hit $1 to $2 million in revenue never make it to $5 million. And of those that do reach $5 million, very, very few ever scale to $20 million or beyond. And if you want to know the number one reason why, it’s not marketing, it’s not sales, it’s not even operations. It’s financial clarity or the complete lack of it. Today’s guest is Matt Putra, founder of AdEx and a fractional CFO who specializes in helping $5 to $100 million companies scale profitably and sustainably. Matt has guided businesses through cashflow crises, major expansions, and successful exits by doing something most business owners completely ignore, creating financial systems that actually drive growth instead of just tracking it. So if you’ve ever felt like you’re flying blind financially, or even if you’re making good revenue but somehow always stressed about cashflow, the next 25 minutes are hopefully gonna open your eyes. Matt’s gonna share the financial strategies that separate businesses that plateau from those that scale to eight and nine figures. So Matt, welcome to Digital Dominance.

Matt Putra (00:58.264)
Thank you so much for having me.

Jeffro (01:00.221)
Yeah, I’m excited. And I think we can start with the elephant in the room. Why do so many service businesses that hit one in two million in revenue never make it to five? What are they missing financially?

Matt Putra (01:11.586)
Hmm. On a financial, you know, I think a lot of it is really understanding what drives your business and what’s going to get you to that next level. know, we are a good example. We’re on that path now, like we’re hitting about two and we’re going to continue to grow. But what we’ve done is we’ve mapped, just one thing is we’ve mapped our conversion funnel all the way from impressions on our advertising all the way through to book meetings. And so when something breaks, we know very quickly, because I have trailing four weeks, three weeks, trailing one week so we can track what’s going on. And if, let’s say, our CTR drops off, I know that very, very quickly. Or our show rate drops off, I know that quickly too. So it allows us to react in real time. And I think that’s something that a lot of people miss is that real time reaction. Even beyond marketing and sales, you gotta have your scores and your scorecards for delivery, for team health, for all these different areas.

Jeffro (02:09.336)
Yeah, well and you work with companies doing 5 to 100 million, but I imagine most of our listeners are in the maybe 500k to 2 million dollar range. What specific financial blind spots do you see at that level that are setting them up for problems later?

Matt Putra (02:12.355)
Yes.

Matt Putra (02:23.886)
Yeah, I see a number of them. Big ones in service companies are not understanding your total cost to serve. you, obviously, let’s say you have a pod delivering projects on a, I don’t if you’re a designer, even if you’re building something and you have pods. Well, a lot of people will understand the revenue minus the pod costs, but not a lot of folks will be able to take that all the way from what is the CEO charged to each pod? What does the COO charge to each pod? What is the marketing efforts, how do those get allocated? And so then are your pods truly profitable when you allocate all your costs against them? That’s actually one of the biggest ones I’ve seen. And even some bigger service companies out of like New York, let’s say seven, eight million a year, they didn’t even know what their total cost of service was.

Jeffro (03:10.598)
Yeah, it’s probably pretty tricky because even something like a subscription to a tool that allows you to serve all your customers, each time you calculate it, now, got another customer, I got to divide that by an additional fraction to know how much of that goes to each customer, or is it kind of just like a fixed cost? How do you allocate that to know truly what you’re spending?

Matt Putra (03:29.23)
Good question.

So that’s a very good question because these things are very hard to do even on a monthly basis. And so the way that you approach them is you look at your last year and you look at your total fixed costs and you go, now that I know what happened last year, this is how I should allocate the fixed costs. So that’s actually can be fairly accurate because it’s historical. Then you look at your year in front of you and you say, if this year goes the way we want, we’ll grow to this many more clients and this many more pods based on the fixed cost load we think we have, this is how we’d allocate them. And so then you can sort of estimate what should be your cost to serve and what it was last year. And the should be is good because it helps you kind of understand what’s going on. The last year allows you to say, was there a problem and do I fix it? And if there’s a problem, I mean, now you actually are armed with information. Can you fix it? Can you reduce costs? Can you make your pods more efficient? There’s a bunch of things you can try and yeah, so that’s where I’d start. Do it one time historically and then do one forecast for the year. And you can touch base with that every six months, let’s say. It’s a pretty hard project to do, but it’s worthwhile.

Jeffro (04:42.204)
Okay, so does that timeline change as the company grows, like saying, okay, every six months is good enough at this revenue level, but once we get here, we should be doing it every three months or every month, or have a dedicated person to watch this all the time?

Matt Putra (04:55.448)
Fair question. I would say no. I’m doing it twice a year is probably good enough for a very, very long time. And a couple of reasons why. When you do this analysis, one of the biggest outputs of this is, is my MRR enough? Am I charging enough? And if you bill hourly, is my hourly rate enough? And you can break your hourly rate into senior, junior people and whatnot, but generally speaking, you’d wanna break your rate. So that one of the biggest things this informs is yes, is there a problem, but how do I adjust my billing? So you can’t adjust your billing that often, which is why I would say once or twice a year to do this analysis is enough because you really can’t change your MR more than twice a year, probably. And you probably can’t even adjust your hourly rates for people in your team more than maybe once a year. So knowing is important, but like you can’t do that much with it if you did it quarterly, let’s say.

Jeffro (05:41.636)
Yeah.

Jeffro (05:49.849)
Right, this is, obviously, if you’re gonna grow a business to anywhere serious, and the revenue numbers we’re talking about, you have to know this type of stuff to have the financial clarity that we’re talking about. I think a lot of smaller business owners go a long time just checking their bank account, and that’s their idea of keeping on top of the finances, which works when you’re tiny or it’s just you, but obviously, once you’ve got a team and there’s a lot more going on, you do need to take that deeper dive and actually,

Matt Putra (06:08.055)
Yes.

Jeffro (06:17.621)
know where everything’s coming from and what’s going in and out.

Matt Putra (06:21.09)
Yeah, well, 100%. I mean, I think even we have evolved, right? Like I used to do the finances just myself and even I have someone doing internal finance. And again, we’re only at about 2 million and I just need the support. you know, all carpenters have squeaky doors. Like, yes, I’m a CFO for people, but I need someone to do it for me because I’m just too tired of doing it for everyone else. we have pod reports, we have by client margin reports, we have pipeline versus what do we need coming in the door reports? We have obviously P &L balance sheet, but by department. And we have all these different ways that we can look at the data. We have trailing 13 months. We have all these things. And, but my internal guide prepares all of it. And I have an external controller too. Like I pay for this myself because I know that I need it too. And bank account is, mean, banking account looks great, but it’s not going to tell me how I am going to do in a month. And that’s where I need all this reporting to know.

Jeffro (07:19.01)
Right, well and also, so you know what the KPIs are to pay attention to and so if you get those reports from your guy and you’re like, hey, this seems off, then you can look in deeper and figure out what’s going on, right? So maybe you can talk a little bit about what are some of those three to five most critical KPIs that you should be paying attention to beyond just the cash balance.

Matt Putra (07:38.318)
For sure. So I think there are some really important ones for us. And so one thing we watch is we watch customer gross margin. So by customer, because obviously most of our teams track their hours against our clients. And so we look at that regularly. For us currently, one of our most important metrics is hours per customer or per client per week. And the reason we’re doing that is because this year we’ve done a bit of over serving of some people and some under serving of others and watching that target out. So I have a target for clients per hour per week. And if they’re over or above or over or below, to me it’s indication I’m gonna ask a question. What’s happening with this client? Is there like a point in time issue where you’re over serving to solve something? Are they just dragging you into stuff that they shouldn’t drag you into?

And so then I can make sure that my team’s time is spread appropriately between all of our clients. So that one has been a big one for us this year. Another one for us has been our conversions, our sales funnel. So we, like I mentioned, we watch it from impressions all the way to book calls. And so that’s something we look at every single week. We have targets for each level of conversion and we know when it’s off target and so for me, it’s a flag to go, okay, I’m a marketing person. So I go, what are we doing about this? How do we adjust it? How do we get there? As you might tell for me right now, growth and delivery are very important for us. And so those are the two big, big, big ones that we watch. What else so we obviously do some bookkeeping. And so you could institute this for a design or a web dev or somebody type of firm. But like for us, we’re actually watching some client side metrics. So for us, how many transactions have been logged in their QuickBooks every week? So are we on track? Are we off track? Are we doing enough? If you’re a marketing agency, you might look at client side metrics such as

Matt Putra (09:54.252)
Are there impressions on target? Impressions is, know it’s a weak predictor. So let’s say, let’s say landing page views or something like that. Like, but is that client side metric for every client on track? And then you know, if it’s on track, your team is doing the right things. If you do the right things, the clients will be happy. So for us, we want to predict growth. want to predict how well we’re doing as a team. We want to predict how happy our clients are going to be.

Jeffro (09:58.411)
Sure, yeah.

Jeffro (10:16.671)
him. So I mean, we’re talking about predicting growth and everything. And obviously, cash flow forecasting is part of that. As a company grows earlier on, when do you have enough data to actually start doing that? Especially if you’re trying to ramp up marketing campaigns? How far out should you be looking? And how can you do that in a meaningful way so you’re not just wasting time?

Matt Putra (10:38.648)
Yeah, great question. I would say that if you do a deep research with Claude or QI2BT or whatever perplexity, I would say that you’re gonna get relevant data targets for your advertising. And so I would use those to estimate, let’s say growth, how your growth will look like. You should be able to get, again, reasonable targets for lead to close or lead to appointment booked and all those things. All those things will be there. So then, If you’re just starting out or you’re just growing, you would make all those targets worse than they should be. And then I would ramp them up to their on industry average over the course of from start to maybe six to nine months. They should hit average industry performance. But I would be forecasting for a year ahead of you and see how it goes. And I would be looking at regular check-ins with these targets. Finance, let’s say.

to see are you on track for your goals in the month. Does that help?

Jeffro (11:42.848)
It does, yeah, and I think using AI is a great way to get started because everybody’s getting more comfortable using it for a lot of things. And when you don’t have the data, you can say, okay, what’s average? And at least kind of use that as a placeholder until you do have enough data to kind of fill in your own and kind of adapt it to your own business model and everything else. So that way you still have something to work off of, but you’re not just blindly guessing either.

Matt Putra (12:02.124)
Yeah, for sure.

Matt Putra (12:07.638)
Yeah, and I would say that the most important thing you can do is, again, do a deep research. What do need to track? And then just start tracking stuff. Track the things you think are the most important today. What you will find is you will either track the right things or you will begin to go, we missed this problem because that metric didn’t catch it. Here’s how I would adjust. And then you’ll add that thing and maybe remove one and you will get there. But you have to just start even if you’re not sure that’s the most important and you have to put a target even if you’re not certain it’s the best target because you’ll look at it and you’ll go, man, I’m over target all the time. Let’s raise the target or I’m under it all the time. Let’s lower it or fix the problem. But just start measuring.

Jeffro (12:52.222)
Yeah. So as they start measuring, how do you help business owners think about investing in growth versus maintaining some cash reserves? It seems like a tricky balance to figure out. So what’s your advice there?

Matt Putra (13:05.966)
Great, great question. By and large right now, the lending partners in the world are not showing up for folks. And so for me, preserving cash and having a buffer is one of the most important things you can think about right now. So if you’re a service company, honestly, the rule of thumb is you should almost never be unprofitable. Never, almost never, right? Like because it’s… Billings in, payments out. You’re not buying a ton of inventory like e-commerce companies are. So yeah, mean, generally speaking, you should almost never be unprofitable unless you’ve got backing of some sort. In terms of acquisition, I am totally okay with acquiring customers at a first month loss, first month negative profit for any one client. You… If you’re any more than six to nine months old, you’ll have some idea of what your LTV will look like. And so then you can say, let’s say you don’t have strong data on that. Well, and you know that people are generating for two months. Well, sure. Maybe you acquire a client for a first month loss because you’ll get it back in the second month. If you’re not sure, do it for a first month profit. And if you know your numbers, we know for us, if someone joins us, they’re either going to stay for three months or like 15, basically. So we don’t generally wanna acquire for like a three month net loss. We would do it for a first month only. And then we’re always profitable. we should, the bank balance should always be going up almost all the time. Sometimes though what we do is when we know our pipeline is good, we will over invest and we will make less money for a period of time for a role that will make sense as we continue to grow.

Jeffro (14:57.098)
Right, but you’re not going negative. You’re just going to like, hey, I’m going to make less right now so that I can reinvest, but always stay profitable. great advice. Being negative is painful. So don’t do it.

Matt Putra (15:01.784)
Great. Yes, that’s right. Yeah, It is painful and honestly, there may be, and look, I’m almost 40 and I have kids. And so there is maybe a risk profile that’s coming through here where if someone’s quite a bit younger and no kids and can stomach that, then maybe that can be fine. But just make sure when you look at your forecasting, there is a clear path to be profitable and yeah, and if you’re, I would say where you don’t want to be unprofitable is on the delivery side. So if your delivery is unprofitable, I wouldn’t allow that, let’s say, but if you’re going to invest in a growth role or growth marketing or something, that’s probably okay. But if your delivery is unprofitable, you have to fix that pretty quick, I would think.

Well, exactly. Yeah, 100%.

Jeffro (15:57.526)
Okay, so I think there’s a lot of owners that are great at operations, but they’re kind of terrible at the financial communication with their team and figuring this stuff out. And that’s a tough inflection point. So how do you fix that? Is there a mindset shift? Is there some tools? How do you bridge that gap?

Matt Putra (16:17.272)
Great question. So the first thing that I will do with people I work with and the first thing that we did is scorecards for every department that are visible to everybody in every department. And the way we came at them is we co-created them with these departments. So there’s a very simple thought experiment. go, imagine you’re on a deserted island and you don’t get email or there’s no cell service or wifi.

And every four weeks you get a letter with numbers on it. What are the most important numbers that are on that letter that tell you you have to rush home or you can stay for another four weeks? So it’s lot of experiment. And we did it with all our department heads and the people in the departments too, they were on this call. So two hours each. And then you get 10 to 15 things that they all think are important to watch. And typically if you do it right, you really do get the 10 things that are really important. So that’s the first foray into managing numbers because then we can say these numbers indicate success from there, we then give department level financial reporting. So some owners probably don’t wanna show all the way down to net profit. Fine, don’t yet. Some owners will be okay with gross margin by department. So start there. we have a finance department and we have an accounting department. And so their department heads see a P &L. for like from revenue to net revenue to the gross margin of their performance. So they don’t see everything else below that for our stage. So that’s a great place for a second next step is once you do scorecards, then you do this. And then you can then hold department heads accountable for the gross margin of their work, right? And then once you get to that point, you might have, I don’t know, three, four departments. You probably are gonna be then thinking about a COO or a high level ops person you wanna begin to expose your full P &L to that person. Because if you don’t, you’re always on the hook for it. And as owners, we might be traveling, but we might be doing other stuff and it helps to have someone owning the P &L too. So that is the next step. And then from there, you can then begin to roll out more fulsome P &Ls to your department heads too. So not just gross margin, but then…

Matt Putra (18:32.398)
the gross margin net of other fixed costs to that department, like the department head themselves, the tools that they use, things like that. And then, I would say maybe for a service company, maybe you’re like in the eight figure range or approaching it, you then expose your full P &L to a team of department heads that work together. So that’s kind of the progression that I would use.

Jeffro (18:55.646)
Okay, well I like that idea of the scorecard too, especially making it visible to everyone within the company, because now that becomes part of the culture of tracking what matters and it’s no longer on that one person to be like, hey, hey, did you give me that number yet? Like we got a bit like, no, no, like this is just the way we do things across the board. And so that I feel like that’s the only way to actually make it work long term. So I like that. So here’s another question, you know,

Matt Putra (19:03.886)
Yes.

Matt Putra (19:17.07)
100%.

Jeffro (19:22.973)
You said store scorecards. this the same as, well, I imagine it’s different than you have a growth readiness index as well. Can you tell us about that real quick?

Matt Putra (19:32.798)
yeah, yeah. So our growth index, it’s like a, it’s a sort of survey on our website. And if you take it, it asks you a of questions about how your business runs and how you transfer information. And at the end, gives you a score. And we haven’t used this for a little bit, but so it’s cool that you have it. But the score is indicative of how ready you are to really grow your business. Because what happens is if you are not ready and you dump a bunch of new work in your business, That’s a way that you can fail also. So you’ll burn out clients, you’ll piss people off, your turn will go way up, your team will quit, all these different things. But if you’re ready to grow, as in delivery is good, you have SOPs, scorecards are there, you can catch issues, you know, then you can have new clients come in and not turn them out and keep them happy. Like we saw this in an email marketing agency we worked with some years ago where they had a year where they went where they went from zero to like three million in two years, three years. And they had massive, massive, massive churn at that point, just because their team didn’t know what they were doing. Their delivery was falling off, all these different things. And it took them a year to fix that. And then they grew to six million and got acquired. And they got acquired for a wicked multiple too at the time. Yeah, so I don’t think those guys work anymore. Yeah.

Jeffro (20:54.289)
Okay, well that’s good for them, congrats. So from a financial standpoint, what makes one service business worth three times revenue while another sells for barely one extra revenue since you’re talking about acquisitions?

Matt Putra (21:06.67)
Sure. Yeah, and so in terms of multipliers to like how you are valued, retention is gonna be really big, right? I would say growth velocity is a big one too. So if you’re growing faster than 20%, so actually, well, think about it this way. Let’s say I’m gonna buy your company and I’m gonna put 10 million down. Somebody that’s 30 % every year, with 95 % retention, I’m gonna make my money back really fast compared to someone that’s growing 5 % a year with 95 % retention or 30 % a year with 50 % retention. So as an acquirer, all you’ve got to think about is how fast can they get the money back and how sure are they? Because if it’s fast and they’re very certain, you get more money. So how fast? So that’s revenue velocity plus gross margin plus retention essentially, right? Those three are awesome.

So above 30 % or 20%, gross margin, I mean, it’s different for all different kinds of services, between 75 and 50, I’ve seen very high value companies. And retention though, would be in the 90s, know, good signals. Then how certain are they? So do you have a strong team that knows how to issues? Do you have reporting that makes sense? So when you show them your financials, and then they ask you to prove your revenue number, Can you prove it quickly? As in, can you open up Stripe or QuickBooks or whatever you use and pull a sub report that matches what you showed them? If you can do that quickly, that gives them certainty that what they’re seeing on your financial statement is true. Like I said, do you have a good team? Is it only you that’s bought and solved issues? If that’s true and you get hit by a bus, their money is gone, right? So do you have department heads that are strong? Because if that’s true, they walk in.

Let’s say you leave or something happens. These people run the business. Great. Other things that can make them more certain. Yeah.

Jeffro (23:14.546)
I mean, that helps. It’s kind of all the stuff we’re talking about. If you’re tracking stuff and you’re showing progress, you can prove it, basically. You don’t just say, feel like we’re doing great this year. Like, no, no, we’re going x percent over compared to last year. You can show them actual data. That matters. That makes sense.

Matt Putra (23:29.25)
Well, and scorecards, of course. So scorecards, that makes sense. If you have those two, again, increases your valuation because they’re more certain you can deliver on what you said.

Jeffro (23:37.915)
Okay, so we’ve got a few more minutes here. I kind of want to get back to some practical things before we wrap up. So like, let’s say there’s a business owner who, you know, they are listening, they realize they need better financial systems, maybe don’t know where to start. What’s the first thing they should implement this week?

Matt Putra (23:55.15)
scorecards. First thing, even if you don’t have your bookkeeping in order, don’t even fix that fucking first. Do scorecards first. The reason why you do scorecards first is bookkeeping, as we all know, is you finish a month and it takes 20 days to get your books, right? Even for us, we’re like 15, but like it still takes time. All these reports. Scorecards, you are looking at source data to fill them in, not like financial data. So start scorecards. Have a meeting with your team pick the 10 things you think are the most important to measure for each team, put them on a Google Sheet, talk about them every week, and make sure that they track to source data, whether it’s in your Go High level or your Meta or whatever, you can find the source data. That is the first and most important thing I want people to do. Do it this week, it’s not very hard, and you don’t even need to automate it. Pay a VA six to eight bucks an hour to go to all these systems, fill them all in, or you can ask your team members to do it themselves. If you do that I guarantee you, and you have to talk about scorecards every week. What’s red? How do we fix it? Move on. If you do this, people will learn to solve problems without you in the room because the first five, six meetings, will be you going, that one’s red. What are you gonna do? That one’s red. What are you gonna do? Then you start having other people chair the meeting. So then Bob goes, this is red. What are we gonna do? Jane goes, this is red. So now they’re chairing the meetings. You trade off chairs. Now you’re sick.

Someone knows how to chair the meeting. They know how to solve problems together. You’re on vacation for two weeks. All the meetings get chaired. They all know how to solve problems. They log their action items. I tell you, it’s the most important thing we’ve ever done for our business to help us get to where we are. We grew 200 % in one year and we didn’t Yeah.

Jeffro (25:36.57)
love it. Alright, so then what about as they start to grow, but maybe they can’t afford a fractional CFO yet, are there any tools or resources that can help them with kind of the next step after scorecards?

Matt Putra (25:48.524)
Hell yeah, chat GBT guys. I mean, so build a scorecard and you should do bookkeeping. Don’t not do bookkeeping, fix that too, okay? Honestly. But then look, take your scorecard, download it, take your finance statements, download those, throw them in chat GBT, ask it to write a prompt for you. So what do you want to know? And say, chat GBT, I wanna know what is the next most important thing I should work on. Write me a prompt that will understand this information I just gave you and do really deep analysis on it, use the thinking model, and then tell me what I need to do. Then it will write you a really long prompt, take that prompt, jump it into another instance, thinking, put the information into it, hit enter, it will think for five minutes or whatever, and you’ll be surprised the information that it gives you. I have a board of advisors in my chat GPT, so I have Elon Musk, I think I have, I have Mark Andreessen, I have,

Jeffro (26:47.472)
Thanks.

Matt Putra (26:48.066)
Jim Collins, I have Neil Rackham for sales. And so I’ve created in-depth reports. They’re in there, but I can talk to them every day. Neil, I had this lead. They said this, what the fuck do I say next? And he tells me, right? Use ChatTPT guys, it’s there. It’s cheap. 100%. Everybody on my team has it.

Jeffro (27:04.73)
Yeah, 20 bucks a month, guys.

Jeffro (27:11.106)
I that. And I will say, you know, I’m going to go make some scorecards for my team after this. And when I got a bookkeeper instead of doing it myself, my gosh, like huge difference. And I’ve been able to fix so many more things and get visibility into things that I didn’t realize. And it’s helped me over the past couple of years to like fix a lot of things that were broken from when I was doing this by myself. And now I’ve got a team. And so was like, okay, it makes a lot more sense now. I feel more confident in the direction of the business.

Matt Putra (27:21.154)
Yeah.

Jeffro (27:39.001)
Cause I actually know the direction of the business. So yeah, I can attest to the value of this. And obviously I’ve got more room to grow too. So this has been really helpful, Matt. Thank you. I think a lot of our listeners are probably realizing too, that the financial side of the business is going beyond bookkeeping like we talked about, but it’s this foundation that’s going to determine whether or not you can grow and scale and everything. These aren’t just nice to have strategies. Like this is the difference between a business that’s going to plateau at the one to 2 million.

Matt Putra (27:40.91)
100 %

Jeffro (28:08.098)
and then those that scale to 10 and beyond. So for anybody who is listening that wants to dive deeper into their financial health, Matt mentioned the growth readiness index. Where can they find that, Matt? And also learn more about what you do at ADEX.

Matt Putra (28:22.018)
Yeah, so I’m on LinkedIn, so Matt Puchra, so you’ll find me there. You can look at our website, 8x.co, E-I-G-H-T-X.co, or you can email me, matt at 8x.co. If you have any questions or you’re on LinkedIn, honestly DM me, we’ll respond. Obviously I have someone who helps me look at that, but yes, we’ll respond to you. We can send you the index.

We didn’t talk about AI, everybody should be using AI for everything. We have our first AI employee, it’s a client coordinator, does all of our tasks and sentiment analysis, all that kind of thing. So yeah, guys, you gotta do all that stuff.

Jeffro (28:55.295)
I love it. Well, thanks again, Matt, for coming on the show. Listeners, your action item for today’s episode, you have it. Sit down, look, be honest. Do I have financial clarity in my business? Can you predict your cash flow 90 days out? What activities are driving profit? Do you have those scorecards? So if not, let’s get serious about that. Start putting it together. And like I said, I’m going to be doing this too, getting those scorecards together, do the homework right along with you guys. you can’t scale what you can’t measure, can’t measure what you don’t understand financially. So. appreciate you, Matt. Thanks for being on the show. That’s it for today. Guys, make sure to subscribe to Digital Dominance. Leave us a review. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Take care, and we’ll see you next time.

Matt Putra (29:34.19)
Bye everybody, thank you.