Truth, Lies & Business Growth: How RJON Robins Helps Entrepreneurs Stop BSing Themselves – RJON Robins

Jeffro (00:01.47)
Here’s a question that might make you uncomfortable. What if the biggest obstacle to your business growth isn’t your marketing, your competition, or the economy? What if it’s you? My guest today is Arjan Robins, CEO of How to Manage Enterprises, which is a multi-eight figure business that has helped thousands of small business owners transform what he calls their so-called businesses into actual businesses that work for the owners instead of the other way around. Now Arjan has just co-written a book with John David Mann, the co-author of The Legendary Go Giver called Truth, Lies, Mistakes or BS. And fair warning, the title is exactly as direct as the content. The book is a business parable about a restaurant owner on the verge of losing everything and the stranger who shows him that the real problem isn’t his systems, his marketing or his location. It’s the lies he’s been telling himself. So if you’ve ever blamed external forces for your business struggles, if you’ve ever felt like you’re pouring everything into your business and still not getting what you need out of it, the next 25 minutes are going to challenge how you think about everything. So Arjan, welcome back to Digital Domain.

RJON ROBINS (01:00.083)
Thanks for having me back. I guess I did okay last time.

Jeffro (01:02.013)
Yeah, I’m excited. Absolutely. I thought there was some great stuff that we talked about. We talked about an owner’s responsibility to profit. We talked about proactive marketing and a few other things last time. And I want to build on that. And it seems like your new book already does that. So we can start by talking about that new book. As I mentioned, it’s written as a parable, which is a story about this restaurant owner named Harry. Why did you decide to tell it that way instead of doing a traditional business book?

RJON ROBINS (01:31.638)
Traditional business books are boring. No one wants to read them. People have shorter and shorter attention spans nowadays because of social media. And if you can’t get it across in three minutes, they’re like, well, this must not be of any use to me. But a business parable I thought would be more engaging. I thought it’d be more fun. I never did one before, so I wanted to try that. And I think that you can…

Jeffro (01:34.739)
Fair.

RJON ROBINS (02:00.903)
I think you can help people explore concepts and ideas when they’re seeing someone else go through the experience rather than a full frontal assault as a lesson in their face.

Jeffro (02:14.511)
Yeah, it’s much more, it’s easier to understand when you can see it happening in real time, as opposed to just learning it as an academic exercise.

RJON ROBINS (02:21.449)
You

And people learn and remember based on emotion. know, all memory is emotion driven and

Jeffro (02:31.442)
Sorry, I lost you.

RJON ROBINS (02:34.729)
Can you hear me?

RJON ROBINS (02:39.071)
Can you hear me?

Jeffro (02:40.736)
yeah, my headphone stopped, so I don’t know what the deal is.

Karli Royer (02:41.526)
I can hear you, RJON.

RJON ROBINS (02:44.755)
Can you hear me? I know you can hear me, karli.

Karli Royer (02:46.414)
you

RJON ROBINS (02:51.391)
Jeffery, can you hear me?

Jeffro (02:51.491)
Let me try this. Hopefully these are charged.

RJON ROBINS (02:55.443)
Right? Can you hear me?

Jeffro (02:57.75)
Yes, but you’re coming through the wrong speakers now. I apologize. Maybe we talked about Riverside giving us grief and here we are. let me do this. I’m going to jump in on the browser version instead of the desktop version of the app. And then I don’t know if I’ll have to let you back in or if it’ll let you stay here. Hopefully it’ll let you stay. So I will be… Okay.

RJON ROBINS (03:19.007)
If we get locked that, we’ll go back in. If an error appeared, please try again later.

Karli Royer (03:25.462)
Yeah, it told me that when I tried to get on too. I think that might be why I can’t turn off my recording.

RJON ROBINS (03:32.851)
Would you please record on your screen just so we’ve got it?

Karli Royer (03:36.14)
Yes. Let me see if it’ll let me.

RJON ROBINS (04:26.323)
Hey, while I have you, why isn’t Dawn involved in this meeting we’re having? She’ll be on the meeting later? Okay.

Karli Royer (04:30.158)
she is. Yep. Yeah, she and I have been speaking directly.

Jeffro (04:38.537)
Okay, I am back.

Jeffro (04:44.393)
Can you guys hear me okay?

RJON ROBINS (04:47.177)
Yes.

Jeffro (04:48.7)
Okay, great.

right. We’ll try this again. And in the future, karli, if you’re ever on the show again, do have, Riverside has a producer role. So you can always join as a producer if you’re invited that way through a separate link. And then that way you can observe, but you wouldn’t be part of the recordings, I think. That’s how it works.

Karli Royer (05:07.352)
Fantastic.

Jeffro (05:10.51)
I might be able to do it from here. Let’s see.

Karli Royer (05:13.066)
okay.

Jeffro (05:15.922)
maybe not. Okay. It tricked me.

Karli Royer (05:17.43)
you

Jeffro (05:20.601)
Okay, so I liked the intro and the first part, so let’s just pick up with the question about why you wrote the book that way. So let me, it already says it’s recording. I guess it never stopped. Okay. All right. So then let’s just pick it up from there. Why did you write the book as a parable as opposed to a traditional business book?

Karli Royer (05:33.612)
Mm-hmm. It didn’t.

RJON ROBINS (05:46.495)
Traditional business books are boring. tend to, you people learn and people remember based on emotion. Memory is rooted in emotion. And, you know, I can teach a bunch of concepts and ideas in a traditional business book that someone might intellectually understand. But if I want something to really stick with you, I know I have to help you have an experience around it. And sometimes it’s just easier to emotionally resonate with a character, or in this case, a series of characters who you can experience their journey through the material. And it’s more fun, and I never wrote a business parable before. Plus, it gave me a chance to work with John David Mann, who co-authored the GoGiver series. I who wouldn’t want to do that?

Jeffro (06:34.653)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. And I can definitely see how it’d be easier to actually learn the lessons when you’re seeing it through the eyes of another business owner as opposed to just like reading a textbook where it’s telling you something that’s head knowledge. So the title alone, I mean, is going to make some people uncomfortable, obviously. So can you walk us through the distinction that the title talks about? What’s the difference between a truth, a lie, a mistake, and BS in business context?

RJON ROBINS (06:59.049)
Sure, well, not just in business context, in life. So let’s start off with what is truth? And I’ve been going around this country teaching people how to build successful businesses for decades. And I used to do this talk that I traveled around the country with for many years. And one of the questions that I would start off with is what is truth? And it’s amazing, tens thousands, tens and tens of thousands of some of the most highly educated, some of the most successful entrepreneurs on the planet. They don’t know what truth is. They confuse truth with perception. But if you think about it, truth is reality. All things that are real are true by definition. If it’s real, by definition it’s true. If it’s true, it’s only true because it is real. So let’s make a distinction between truth and telling the truth, which a lot of people confuse. Telling the truth requires a person to understand what they think is true and then do their level best to communicate what they believe to be true. When you understand what’s true or you think you understand what’s true and real and you do your level best to accurately describe reality,

You’re said to be telling the truth. You’re a truthful person, right? If you think you know what’s real, but it turns out you’re wrong, and you accurately describe what you believe to be real, but you’re wrong, you’ve made a mistake. It doesn’t make you a liar. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It just makes you a person who made a mistake. We all make them. A liar is a person who knows what’s real, or they think they know what’s real.

Jeffro (08:32.105)
Mm-hmm.

Jeffro (08:48.009)
Mm-hmm.

RJON ROBINS (08:55.303)
And for whatever reason, their own motivation, they go out of their way to try to misrepresent what they believe to be real. So when you know what’s real, or at least you think you know what’s real, and you accurately describe reality correctly, you’re telling the truth, or you might be making a mistake. When you know what’s real, or you think you know what’s real, and you try to misrepresent what you believe to be real, you are telling a lie. Yeah. A bullshitter is the worst person in the world to do business with. A bullshitter is the worst person in the world to be in a relationship with. A bullshitter is the worst person in the world to have as a leader because a bullshitter, they don’t know what’s real. They don’t respect reality enough to find out what’s real.

So they’re making representations and they’re making decisions and they’re making choices and they’re doing things or not doing things. It might be right. It might be wrong, but you don’t know because they don’t care about reality. They’re dangerous. They’re dangerous to your business. They’re dangerous to your mental health. They’re dangerous to your relationships. They’re dangerous to your physical safety. They’re just dangerous people. And once you open your eyes, and recognize what’s going on, you realize they’re everywhere. Social media is filled to the brim with bullshitters. They’re not even lying. They don’t even know what’s real. They’re just making representations. And that’s why that’s really what the book’s all about. Truth, lies, mistakes, or bullshit. What’s driving your business?

Jeffro (10:47.635)
So I guess with that, we’ve got Harry as the one we’re following. If I were to guess, I’d say he’s supposed to be, he’s not just making stuff up. He actually is distracted or thinks he’s doing a good job and maybe he’s blaming something else. So he’s not the worst kind, but someone reading the book might be. So what’s really the goal? Because I think it’s probably a common combination to be great at your business or your craft, but terrible at the business side of actually running it.

RJON ROBINS (10:53.503)
He’s a protagonist.

Jeffro (11:17.545)
for a lot of service business owners out there. So is your goal to get people to recognize which one they are and then make changes or, because the way you describe to BS are like they’re not going to care even if they realize, that’s me, right?

RJON ROBINS (11:36.137)
We are all truth tellers sometimes.

We are all mistake makers sometimes. We all lie sometimes. And we all BS sometimes. This isn’t like I’m of this or I’m of that. It’s recognizing what is going on in your life that causes you to BS when you BS and what causes you or requires you to lie when you lie and what causes you to make mistakes, unwillingly, unknowingly, obviously. And where do you find the courage and how do you find the courage to know what’s real? Because you can’t build a successful business anywhere else except in reality. You have to know what’s really going on with your product or your service if you’re going to maximize the profitability of that product or service. You have to know what’s really going on with your marketing if you’re going to optimize your marketing. You have to know what’s really going on with your staff if you’re going to maximize the performance of your staff. You have to know what your customers, your clients, your patients, your passengers, your listeners really think about your business if you’re going to optimize to their to their avatar. But most people are afraid to know what’s real because they’re trying to get their love. They’re trying to get their security.

They’re trying to get their self-esteem from their business or from their staff or from their customers. And that’s really, really unprofitable. So Harry is a truth teller. Harry is also a mistake maker. Harry is also a liar. And Harry is also a BSer just like the rest of us. We all are all for sometimes.

Jeffro (13:20.627)
Yeah.

Jeffro (13:36.809)
So guess here’s the core question is really how do you help someone recognize they’re lying to themselves when by definition they don’t know they’re doing it necessarily.

RJON ROBINS (13:49.863)
A lot of people aren’t really lying to themselves. They’re tolerating BS. There’s a difference between lying to yourself and BSing yourself. Lying to yourself requires you to already know what’s real. See, when a person is lying to themselves, they know what’s real and they don’t need someone to help them understand they’re lying to themselves. They know they’re lying to themselves because they know what’s real.

And they know they’re telling themselves stories that are not consistent with what they believe to be real. They might need someone to call them out on it. They might need someone to help them find a way back from it. They may they might need someone to help them figure out a way to save face if they’ve told a bunch of lies and repair a lot of damage. But they already know it because they fundamentally know what’s real and respect reality. The danger is the person who’s BSing themselves. The danger is the person who has not developed and cultivated and who doesn’t cherish knowing what’s real. The person who has not cultivated the habit of knowing what’s real, who hasn’t developed the habit and the practice of investigating, of testing, of evaluating, of analyzing, of really going after reality with a club and those people, the best thing you can do for them is to just show them a glimpse of it. And that’s what I tried to do in this book.

Jeffro (15:27.965)
Got it. So we’re kind of abstract here right now. Let’s get a little more specific. What are some of the most common lies that you hear from business owners that you work with?

RJON ROBINS (15:39.399)
lies.

Jeffro (15:41.225)
Well, I think that they’re telling themselves or BS’s I guess.

RJON ROBINS (15:44.669)
Okay, lies are obvious. Like I did it when I didn’t really do it. I didn’t do it when I really did it. I mean, those are lies. Yeah. Here’s a common lie.

You call me, I’m your lawyer, and you say to me, hey, what’s going on with my case? My whole life is basically on hold waiting for my case to get resolved. And I lie to you and I say, I’m doing everything I can to move your case forward when in fact I’m not doing everything I can to move your case forward. And instead of doing everything that I can to move your case forward, what I’m really doing is my laundry and I’m mopping my floors and cleaning my toilet, and I’m doing all these other things instead of moving your case forward, and I lie to you, and I tell you I’m doing everything I can to move my case forward, when in fact what I’m really doing is housework. That’s a lie. Lawyers lie about this all the time, so do accountants and doctors and everyone else. I don’t, but most people do. BS, a person who makes a decision because everyone knows. Anytime you ask them, why are you doing something? And they say, well, everyone knows this or well, that’s the way it’s always been done. Or because you can’t do this or you have to do that. And you ask them why, how do you know what makes you so sure? And you dig a few levels deep. And the answer is essentially, cause someone told me because I heard it somewhere or because that’s when it’s always been done. That’s when you know what you’ve got is BS. And most of the time, those decisions are unprofitable decisions for the business.

Jeffro (17:40.007)
Right. Okay. So then once we’ve identified some of those, you have a concept in the book, the steam engine metaphor. Would you mind walking through that? Because a lot of people might be wondering what does a steam engine have to do with running a service business?

RJON ROBINS (17:56.177)
Every business has seven main parts. Doesn’t matter whether it was a law firm or a marketing agency or an accounting firm or medical practice or a restaurant or a manufacturing plant or any kind of a business. It doesn’t matter what kind of business it is. Every business has the same seven main parts. Marketing, production, marketing, sales, production, people, physical plant financial controls, and of course the goals of the owner, which everything’s supposed to be in service of the goals of the owner. The business is supposed to work in service of the owner’s financial goals, the owner’s personal goals, and the owner’s professional goals. Yeah?

Jeffro (18:43.773)
Yeah, that makes sense. then, yeah, continue please.

RJON ROBINS (18:45.497)
A steam engine has the steam engine, you know, has some pretty basic elements, right? You got water, you got fire, you’ve got a container to capture and build up the scene. And you got a flywheel and a thing that goes back and forth. And with these basic, basic, basic elements, you can power a locomotive, you can power a factory.

You can power a ship across the ocean. I mean, you can do amazing things if you harness these simple parts of a steam engine and put them to work for you, for your business, for your customers, for your staff, for your family. Similarly, if you get the seven main parts of your business working together the right way, you can do some pretty amazing things.

Jeffro (19:40.445)
Yeah. And I think I was trying to think through some examples of, know, in my own business owner experience of what sort of things I maybe told myself along the way. And I think there’s some like things, you know, you should be doing, but you don’t like doing. And so you do something else instead. And that way you can say, well, I’ve been sending out all these cold emails and doing this and that and that. it’s like, well, why weren’t you just doing the networking meetings like you were doing before? Like, yeah, well, I don’t want to talk to people right now or.

RJON ROBINS (19:56.926)
Mm-hmm.

Jeffro (20:09.865)
you know, or I’ve got too much client work to do, etc.

RJON ROBINS (20:10.335)
Okay, let me stop you. But hold on, let me stop you. Because one thing you just said was truth, and the other thing you just said was a lie. And they sounded the same, but they’re two very different things. When you said, I know I should be going out networking with people, and why don’t you do it? And you said, well, because I don’t really like to talk to people. That’s true. You’re being honest with yourself. I know what I should be doing. I know I’m not doing it and I’m honest with myself about why I’m not doing it is I’m not comfortable interacting with people. That’s a truthful, honest statement. That’s based on reality. We can do something with that. We can transform your whole business with that truth. We can take that one piece of truth. We can take that one piece of reality and grow a massive marketing machine by embracing that truth. The other thing you said is because I’m busy doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s a lie.

You know what you should be doing. You know that it wasn’t really the reason that you’re not going out and networking. And as long as you keep hiding out in that lie, we can’t do anything to help you.

Jeffro (21:20.019)
Got it. So, yeah.

RJON ROBINS (21:20.575)
You don’t like networking, you don’t like people. That the idea? The whole idea?

Jeffro (21:24.723)
Well, right, that was one example. mean, it’s not that I don’t like people, but exactly. Yeah.

RJON ROBINS (21:27.195)
why don’t you hire someone to do it for Then listen, you can hire someone to do it for you. There’s a lot of things that I’m terrible at that I don’t like doing. I don’t like doing it because I’m terrible at it. I’m terrible at it because I don’t like doing it. So I don’t get any practice. And so you know what? I don’t lie to myself. I embrace this reality. And I hire other people who love doing that stuff.

Jeffro (21:43.785)
Exactly. So yeah, I’ve been spending the past six to nine months trying to remove myself as a bottleneck in a lot of different areas in my business. even as we’re talking about this, it’s great to identify these things, even though once you identify, it’s not an overnight fix. It’s still a process because you can’t just swap in a full-time person if your revenue in the cashflow isn’t going to support paying them yet. Right? So sometimes you have to take half steps in that direction.

RJON ROBINS (22:13.159)
If you all say it, that would be an example of BS. That’s something you’re saying that isn’t actually accurate, but you don’t know whether it’s accurate. You just made up a story about it or believe someone else’s story about

Jeffro (22:26.931)
Well, it could be, right? But if I know my numbers and I’m looking at it I’m actively trying to do this and say, okay, I can make a goal to say by June, if I’m able to cut back this many hours to do this many more calls to make this much more money each month, then I can have this person full time. You can plan for a ramp up, right? My point was just to say, don’t expect that identifying it is enough, right? You still need to take the action steps to make the transformation happen in the business, right? Obviously this is a critical starting point.

RJON ROBINS (22:44.595)
or

Jeffro (22:56.251)
is recognizing the BS or the lie, and then you need to work through it.

Do agree?

RJON ROBINS (23:06.59)
No.

Jeffro (23:07.753)
All right, tell us what did I get wrong?

RJON ROBINS (23:11.975)
you made up a story and you BS’d yourself around it.

Jeffro (23:18.483)
So how would you, yeah, please explain.

RJON ROBINS (23:19.743)
Your goal is get out of doing the networking,

Jeffro (23:24.455)
Forget that, I don’t care about network.

RJON ROBINS (23:25.119)
Your goal is to get out of doing the networking and stop doing biz dev. That’s fine. You don’t need to save up enough money to have the person full time to get the person full time. The right person will start for free. They work for the free for the first two weeks.

The right person, you get the right person, you set them up with the right instructions and the right plan. They will work for free for two weeks because they don’t expect to get paid until after the first two weeks. And on top of that, you can hire someone and put them on a performance based compensation plan and they’ll go to work for you for free if they think they can make this thing work. And then you don’t need to save up for months and months and months and do all this blah, blah, blah, different stuff you just said. You could hire someone on a performance base insurance agents, real estate brokers, lot of drug reps, all kinds of commission salespeople go out and they do things for free on commission. You could do that in your business.

Jeffro (24:24.169)
So here’s a question. Obviously, you gave me lots of other paths forward, which is good. If someone’s reading your book and because it feels like, all right, I’ve identified something, I’m making progress, right? And even if I have a plan, there might be even a better plan. How do we get past that? Is it finding a mentor or creating a chat GPT prompt that’s going to push back on you? Like, what is your recommendation for someone actually getting past that? And to the point, where they are catching their own stories faster.

RJON ROBINS (24:58.303)
Right. So at the risk of being too self-serving, would say step number one is read my book because it’ll make you aware of what’s going on. Right. Step one is awareness. That’s what the book is for, is to open our eyes so we at least understand the dynamic. So step one is read my book Truth, Lies, Mistakes or BS.com and pre-order it. Step number two is do not use Chat GPT.

Jeffro (25:05.481)
Okay, right.

RJON ROBINS (25:28.041)
to call you on your BS because it won’t do it. You understand how ChatGPT was actually built from the ground up. It was built from the ground up to lie to you. So ChatGPT is a very unreliable accountability coach. And ChatGPT is basically designed to tell you what you want to hear so you’ll keep interacting with ChatGPT. I went to the TED Talks last year and heard from some of the world’s leading experts

Jeffro (25:30.833)
Everyone, hit the yes button.

RJON ROBINS (25:57.599)
in AI and for five days, they basically all said, and these are some of the highest level ranking people in the world of AI, you can’t really trust it. It’s designed to make you like it. And it knows that if it tells you what you want to hear, you will like it more. You really give AI the right prompts. You could eventually get it to tell you that it has no conscience.

It has no morals. It has no feelings. It has no standards. It has no beliefs. It has none of the things that are required for honesty. It just lacks them by design. no, AI is not going to be a very good accountability coach for you. I think you need to hire a human being who has done the work themselves.

Jeffro (26:40.329)
Mm-hmm.

RJON ROBINS (26:55.325)
And they’re not trying to get their love and they’re not trying to get their security and they’re not trying to get their self-esteem from you. And they don’t need your business. They don’t need your money. They don’t need your appreciation. They don’t need your approval. They don’t need anything from you. And so then the question is, then if they don’t need any of that, why are they doing this kind of work? And the answer is because they like it. That’s what you really should be looking for in, in my opinion, a coach, a mentor or an accountability or whatever you want to call it.

Jeffro (27:28.105)
That makes sense. Now, before we…

RJON ROBINS (27:29.623)
By the way, just want to say my business has a waiting list for the past three years. I’m not trying to sell any of these services to anyone in your audience. I’m just telling you this is way it is.

Jeffro (27:41.161)
Yeah, no, and I agree. And I thank you for being straightforward with that. One thing I did want to ask you though, before we wrap up is, you you’ve, you’ve grown how to manage enterprises quite a lot. It’s an eight figure business now. What lies did you have to stop telling yourself on that journey?

RJON ROBINS (28:02.599)
I had to stop lying to myself about not caring what other people think of me. And it’s kind of a complicated lie. So if you give me a moment to unpack it, I think it’s important. And I’ll try to it fast. In my earlier days of my entrepreneurial journey, I had the misfortune of going and listening to some speakers who stood on stages and professed to not care about what other people thought of them. And typically these were like kind of like macho type people. You know, I don’t care what anyone thinks of me. I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks of me. I don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone thinks of me. And I was an immature, inexperienced, naive, impressionable young entrepreneur. And I aspired to that. And because I could never get close to achieving it, I thought there was something wrong with me and I just had to work harder at reaching that standard.

Now, as the owner of multiple multi-eight figure businesses, I can tell you that anyone who doesn’t care what anyone thinks of them is a person who you should really avoid. You should not work for that person. You should not sell products and services to that person. You should not do business with that person. That’s called a sociopath. A sociopath doesn’t care what other people think of them. What I think people on these stages were trying to say in retrospect is I don’t allow other people’s opinions to dictate my choices to me. Right. Because, of course, a marketing plan that’s not based on concern about what other people are going to think about your product, your service or your brand is going to be a very bad marketing plan. An intake system and a sales process

RJON ROBINS (30:10.749)
that’s not based on what other people are gonna think of your product or your service or your offering is not gonna be a very effective sales process. Trying to hire and manage and lead a team of people without caring what they think about you or your company is a recipe for a disastrous set of employees who will not be very profitable for you. You’re getting what I’m saying here, right? So the biggest lie,

Jeffro (30:36.808)
Yeah, I get it.

RJON ROBINS (30:39.569)
I had to stop telling myself is I don’t care what other people think of me. I do care what other people think of me. I just don’t let what they think of me dictate my choices to

Jeffro (30:51.069)
Right. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that. And Arjun, this has been kind of the exact type of conversation I like to have on the show because it challenges me, it challenges our listeners to look inward before they look outward at the business and stop using that as an excuse. you know, before you spend more money on another ad campaign or SEO, you got to make sure you’re not the kink in your own hose. So just to recap, the book is called Truth, Lies, Mistakes or BS, co-written with John David Mann and i would venture to say it’s one of those reads that’s going to make you put it down and stare at the wall for a minute in the best possible way. tell us again, where can listeners go find the book? Because I know it’s on pre-order right now.

RJON ROBINS (31:29.791)
They can go to truth lies mistakes or BS.com and Jeff forward slash Jeffro. Truth lies mistakes or BS.com forward slash Jeffro. That way we know who to thank for anyone who pre orders or buys a book. If you are going to buy a book directly, please go to Barnes and Noble to buy it there. Place your pre order now. If you pre order the book.

There’s gonna be a place to opt in and we’ll be giving you all kinds of free previews and bonuses and all kinds of cool stuff that we got planned with the publisher for the pre-order group. You can also go to truthlivesmistakes or bs.com and you can opt in to that list and take advantage of all kinds of cool free stuff, bonuses that we’ll be doing there.

Jeffro (32:28.117)
And for those of you listening, your homework, in addition to pre-ordering the book, is to write down, let’s say, three reasons you tell people why your business isn’t growing as fast as you want. And then try to ask yourself, are those the real reasons, or is that a misdirection, a lie? Am I BSing myself? Because as you’ve seen, the answer might surprise you. So thank you all for listening to Digital Dominance. Thanks again for being here, Arjan. Make sure you guys subscribe, share this episode with a friend, and we will see you next time. That’s all.

RJON ROBINS (32:55.519)
Thank you for having me again.